Knot Wars!
I’ve been thinking a lot about knots lately. Haven’t you? For years, I have been teaching our fly fishing class that the “improved clinch knot” is an excellent knot to use for tying your fly to your tippet. It’s easy to tie and most of us learned it a long time ago when we were kids. I have even seen some “tests” that have stated that the improved clinch knot is stronger than most people think (considering there are 100s of knots out there). BUT something got me thinking about knots, knot tests, and who uses what knots when.
While attending Colorado guide, Landon Mayer’s seminar at Feather Craft Fly Shop a few weeks ago, I discovered that he uses just the “regular or unimproved” clinch knot when he fishes. He says it is stronger than the improved clinch knot. How can that be? It’s not “improved”!! But since Landon is one of the top guides in the United States AND always catches BIG fish, it got me thinking and reading – about knots.
There are a lot of factors to consider when tying and using certain knots. There are many variables that go into determining which knot is “best” for a given fly-fishing situation. Here are just a few of them:
- The kind of fly.
- The thickness of the wire in the hook eye.
- The diameter of the tippet material.
- The kind of tippet material (mono, fluorocarbon, etc.).
- The kind of action you want on the fly.
With that said, the knot tests you read about just can’t cover all situations. So, I decided to do some investigating myself. I noticed that when using small diameter tippet (5x or 6x) my “improved clinch knot” has broken off from time to time. I could tell by the little curly cue at the end of the line (knot coming undone). Was it me tying a bad knot or was it something else. If Landon uses the regular clinch knot and gets big fish on small tippet then there must be something to it. With small diameter tippet, does putting more bends in the line during knot tying (when going through the second hole on an improved clinch knot) weaken the line. I decided to use only the clinch knot on our final day at Lake Taneycomo this past week, and to my surprise I didn’t have one break off and I was catching bigger fish on that day. Maybe there is something to the clinch knot with small tippet. With larger diameter mono line (2x or 3x tippet or spinning gear line) then the improved clinch knot may be the best (or the palomar knot, etc…).
I know there are other “fly fishing” knots out there – Davy knot, improved Davy knot, Orvis knot – but for now I will be fishing more with just the “regular or unimproved” clinch knot when using 4x, 5x or 6x tippet. I will do my own field test and get back to you with the results. But just remember, the best knot is the one that is tied well and correctly (and don’t forget to spit on it!).
So, what do you say???
Kenny Klimes
Kenny,
There is a lot of sound logic in what you said regarding the number of turns weakening mono.
I use to use the improved clinch knot but found this compromised the terminal tackle.
I’ve been using what is sometimes called the Trilene Knot and have to date never had a “mono-malfunction” again. Of course the line still breaks if you allow it to..
This knot is pretty much the same as an ordinary clinch (not improved) but with an extra loop around the hook eye (2 loops in) where the tag end is passed through before clinching down. Brilliant!
Vincent
Good to hear from you on this subject. The Trilene knot is also a very good knot. I have gone away from tying the clinch knot (see original posting) and now “testing” the double Davy knot. I’m finding it is easy to tie and very strong. Simply said – I like it! The double Davy knot also makes a small knot which is an advantage when tying tippet to small flies.
I want to stress several things about knots though – 1. No matter what knot you tie you have to tie it properly so take your time and do it correctly. 2. Make sure you always wet the mono before cinching up the knot by either using you’re saliva, the water from the river or better yet the “lip balm” you may be wearing. 3. And tie the knot that you have confidence in and is easy to tie. The more difficult the knot the better chance you will not tie it “correctly”. When you see these knot tests in magazines or online the majority are NOT done scientifically. The testing procedures all have to be exact and done many times over not just once or twice.
Try the Double Davy knot and see if you like it..
Vincent
One other thing about the Trilene knot. If using small flies and small diameter tippet, you may not be able to go through the hook twice. It seems the Trilene knot may be best for larger flies or lures. A great knot that I use when fishing big lures (for Musky and Pike) is the Palomar knot which is very strong also.
Hi Kenny,
Yes, I’ve tried the Davy but prefer the familiarity of the “old” knot for an “old” angler!
The Davy is a great knot indeed if it is doubled.
What we have found is that by doubling your loops (on the pass through) you are increasing the knots security and lessening any chance of slippage, etc. In fact, if you could double any knot, I would.
Yes, it is hard to pass the tag end through twice on smaller flies but I’ve found this is not such a difficult thing with flies up to #16 or even 18. As you inferred, it all depends on several variables including wire diameter, eye size, etc. We rarely use flies smaller than this down under.
Tight Lines!
Hey Kenny,
Just an update – I’ve been using the Davy knot as suggested.
It’s a surprisingly stable knot; less turns, twists means less points of weakness as you suggest.
I have also been using a double loop through the eye on the Davy (as per the Trilene) and it is great!
Try it on 12-18’s as it works a treat on those tough areas and larger fish.
What about using a uniknot? That is the only knot I have in Florida and in the Great Lakes and
it has never failed me yet.
Oarie
The uni-knot is a good knot but I think it depends on why you are using it. It is very similar to the improved clinch knot with it’s 4-5 turns to tie. The knot ends up being “bigger” than you would want for a size 24-18 fly. So if you are using small flies it’s to your advantage to use a knot that is not only strong but also small. If you compare the double Davy (I don’t recommend the Davy) size to the uni-knot or improved clinch knot you will see what I mean. Thanks for writing in and hope to hear more of your ideas.